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	<title>Comments on: Audio Report: DunDraCon, Goodman Games and Troll Lord</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/</link>
	<description>Unplugged gaming news and views</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: HelloWorld</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2579</link>
		<dc:creator>HelloWorld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 08:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2579</guid>
		<description>Peace people 
 
We love you
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peace people </p>
<p>We love you</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Phil Lacefield Jr.</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2578</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Lacefield Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2578</guid>
		<description>Quote: "Found out Stonehenge is gonna cost about $50.00. That is a little pricey given the look of the game, which is professional but not "wow!" looking. Still, it seems to be very versatile."

Hey Lee!  Thanks for coming by our booth, and the mentions in the blog!  I'd like to point out that the Stonehenge bits you saw at Games Expo were pre-production prototypes; the colors of the pieces will change to solid red and blue and such (the ones on display were pleasant pastel colors, they looked like they were carved out of wedding mints...) and the game board itself will be higher quality (the ones on display hadn't been cured yet and were a bit warpy.)  You want a professional look?  Check it out next month when it hits shelves, then I guarantee you'll say "WOW!" with gusto :-)

Thanks! - Phil
Sales Manager, Paizo Publishing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote: &#8220;Found out Stonehenge is gonna cost about $50.00. That is a little pricey given the look of the game, which is professional but not &#8220;wow!&#8221; looking. Still, it seems to be very versatile.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hey Lee!  Thanks for coming by our booth, and the mentions in the blog!  I&#8217;d like to point out that the Stonehenge bits you saw at Games Expo were pre-production prototypes; the colors of the pieces will change to solid red and blue and such (the ones on display were pleasant pastel colors, they looked like they were carved out of wedding mints&#8230;) and the game board itself will be higher quality (the ones on display hadn&#8217;t been cured yet and were a bit warpy.)  You want a professional look?  Check it out next month when it hits shelves, then I guarantee you&#8217;ll say &#8220;WOW!&#8221; with gusto <img src='http://ogrecave.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Thanks! - Phil<br />
Sales Manager, Paizo Publishing</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Sugarbaker</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2477</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Sugarbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2477</guid>
		<description>Out-friggin'-standing. Thanks for the firsthand account, Lee. We'll have to take your measurements before declaring you an Ogre of course, though mini-Ogre is entirely doable. :-)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out-friggin&#8217;-standing. Thanks for the firsthand account, Lee. We&#8217;ll have to take your measurements before declaring you an Ogre of course, though mini-Ogre is entirely doable. <img src='http://ogrecave.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2476</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2476</guid>
		<description>Dang Lee..

Thats was the best report I have read on the show yet. I seriously appreciate the insight. A lot of people in this industry blow a lot of sunshine up Mark Simmons poop hole, and I am glad you didn't.

As for the Gencon thing. AWESOME idea.  Seriously sad that it was announced so shortly before the show in the greater scheme of things. I already booked a flight for origins, and made room arrangements. Bummer. Had I known sooner, I may have gone to gencon instead. foo. Helluva an idea though</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dang Lee..</p>
<p>Thats was the best report I have read on the show yet. I seriously appreciate the insight. A lot of people in this industry blow a lot of sunshine up Mark Simmons poop hole, and I am glad you didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>As for the Gencon thing. AWESOME idea.  Seriously sad that it was announced so shortly before the show in the greater scheme of things. I already booked a flight for origins, and made room arrangements. Bummer. Had I known sooner, I may have gone to gencon instead. foo. Helluva an idea though</p>
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		<title>By: Torquemada</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2475</link>
		<dc:creator>Torquemada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2475</guid>
		<description>Well, there's now more competition: &lt;a href="http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/10293.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Gen Con Trade Day&lt;/a&gt;

See'ya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there&#8217;s now more competition: <a href="http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/10293.html" rel="nofollow">Gen Con Trade Day</a></p>
<p>See&#8217;ya.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lee Valentine</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2474</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Valentine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 02:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2474</guid>
		<description>OK, so today was the last day of Games Expo.  I felt it was summed up when more than an hour before the day closed out everyone was packing up.  It was just dead in there today.  We made 2 or 3 good retail contacts today.  I'll tell you what the show was good for:

1) getting to know other designers -- generally there's no time to talk during GTS, and this show was so slow that people went out of there way to meet each other;

2) the GPA had an unofficial meeting there and I think some positive things will come of it as many of us are motivated into making the GPA a destination like the Forge, only much larger;

3) it was good to get A LOT of face time with individual retailers;

4) it was an AWESOME show if you were a retailer -- you could go up to any exhibitor at any time and stay an hour there;

5) it probably had better presentation sessions than the GAMA Trade Show, as GAMA continues to be too retailer focused while Games Expo made real attempts at reaching out to new publishers in the presentation tracks;

6) it had a really great way to provide some display space on the cheap for small press publishers -- it was called Gametown.

About the only really good thing today (other than the few retailers and the other exhibitors) was not Games Expo itself but a restaurant coupon I found which got me hash browns, toast, 2 eggs, and a steak for FREE!

I think GTS should not mock Games Expo (leave that to the rest of us who blew tons of money).  GTS should instead learn from some of the good things listed above, and GAMA should really increase its focus on small press publishers.

Other than wasting my own company's money (which we really didn't have to waste) I was most sad for some of the other small press publishers who had to gamble on Games Expo vs. GTS.  Some gambled wrong and will miss their most important outreach opportunity toward retailers for 2007.

Games Expo was more hype than opportunity in so many ways.  Because a Borders buyer and another big box buyer pre-registered the staff had added advertised somewhere (if memory serves, somebody double check me on this) that hundreds upon hundreds of stores would be represented, when really there were not that many individual stores represented who had an interest in what the hobby game industry has to offer.

One controversial thing Games Expo did that I liked was they allowed members of the public who were basically alpha gamers to come in on the last day or two of the show.  No sales.  Just demonstrations and discussion.  While you can demo all day at GENCON, nothing replaces getting extended face time with alpha gamers.  I wish there had been more of them there.

Games Expo had an AMAZING room full of miniatures on display.  I only saw it for a few minutes.  Games Expo blew the logistics and failed to get a critical mass of retailers.  The show over-advertised what it was, but it had a number of things that we, the publishers and attendees, should demand of GTS and other trade shows in the future.

Many at GAMA rejoiced.  Many small publishers wept and there was gnashing of teeth.  So ends Games Expo 2007.

So ends my threadjacking.  I can't wait to get home and listen to the podcast, guys.  Feel free to Skype me at veritasgames if you guys have questions.

To the Ogre Cave staff, I hope my reports from Games Expo were of some interest to you and to the listeners of the Cave.

Best regards,
Lee Valentine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so today was the last day of Games Expo.  I felt it was summed up when more than an hour before the day closed out everyone was packing up.  It was just dead in there today.  We made 2 or 3 good retail contacts today.  I&#8217;ll tell you what the show was good for:</p>
<p>1) getting to know other designers &#8212; generally there&#8217;s no time to talk during GTS, and this show was so slow that people went out of there way to meet each other;</p>
<p>2) the GPA had an unofficial meeting there and I think some positive things will come of it as many of us are motivated into making the GPA a destination like the Forge, only much larger;</p>
<p>3) it was good to get A LOT of face time with individual retailers;</p>
<p>4) it was an AWESOME show if you were a retailer &#8212; you could go up to any exhibitor at any time and stay an hour there;</p>
<p>5) it probably had better presentation sessions than the GAMA Trade Show, as GAMA continues to be too retailer focused while Games Expo made real attempts at reaching out to new publishers in the presentation tracks;</p>
<p>6) it had a really great way to provide some display space on the cheap for small press publishers &#8212; it was called Gametown.</p>
<p>About the only really good thing today (other than the few retailers and the other exhibitors) was not Games Expo itself but a restaurant coupon I found which got me hash browns, toast, 2 eggs, and a steak for FREE!</p>
<p>I think GTS should not mock Games Expo (leave that to the rest of us who blew tons of money).  GTS should instead learn from some of the good things listed above, and GAMA should really increase its focus on small press publishers.</p>
<p>Other than wasting my own company&#8217;s money (which we really didn&#8217;t have to waste) I was most sad for some of the other small press publishers who had to gamble on Games Expo vs. GTS.  Some gambled wrong and will miss their most important outreach opportunity toward retailers for 2007.</p>
<p>Games Expo was more hype than opportunity in so many ways.  Because a Borders buyer and another big box buyer pre-registered the staff had added advertised somewhere (if memory serves, somebody double check me on this) that hundreds upon hundreds of stores would be represented, when really there were not that many individual stores represented who had an interest in what the hobby game industry has to offer.</p>
<p>One controversial thing Games Expo did that I liked was they allowed members of the public who were basically alpha gamers to come in on the last day or two of the show.  No sales.  Just demonstrations and discussion.  While you can demo all day at GENCON, nothing replaces getting extended face time with alpha gamers.  I wish there had been more of them there.</p>
<p>Games Expo had an AMAZING room full of miniatures on display.  I only saw it for a few minutes.  Games Expo blew the logistics and failed to get a critical mass of retailers.  The show over-advertised what it was, but it had a number of things that we, the publishers and attendees, should demand of GTS and other trade shows in the future.</p>
<p>Many at GAMA rejoiced.  Many small publishers wept and there was gnashing of teeth.  So ends Games Expo 2007.</p>
<p>So ends my threadjacking.  I can&#8217;t wait to get home and listen to the podcast, guys.  Feel free to Skype me at veritasgames if you guys have questions.</p>
<p>To the Ogre Cave staff, I hope my reports from Games Expo were of some interest to you and to the listeners of the Cave.</p>
<p>Best regards,<br />
Lee Valentine</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chad_Ellis</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2473</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad_Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2473</guid>
		<description>I have to say, I'm glad to hear that Games Expo didn't deliver and I hope it dies a quick death.  No malice towards the folks behind it, but let's be honest -- this isn't a response to industry demand but an attempt to destroy and replace GTS.

There is no way that having two comparable trade shows in the same place within a month of each other is healthier.  Either one of them goes under or else the publishers and channels that want to connect have a harder and more expensive time doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, I&#8217;m glad to hear that Games Expo didn&#8217;t deliver and I hope it dies a quick death.  No malice towards the folks behind it, but let&#8217;s be honest &#8212; this isn&#8217;t a response to industry demand but an attempt to destroy and replace GTS.</p>
<p>There is no way that having two comparable trade shows in the same place within a month of each other is healthier.  Either one of them goes under or else the publishers and channels that want to connect have a harder and more expensive time doing so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: misuba</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2472</link>
		<dc:creator>misuba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 03:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2472</guid>
		<description>Lee: you continue to be awesome.

Pook: if it isn't already in the feed, there's a serious problem. I will try and get it fixed tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee: you continue to be awesome.</p>
<p>Pook: if it isn&#8217;t already in the feed, there&#8217;s a serious problem. I will try and get it fixed tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Valentine</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2471</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Valentine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2471</guid>
		<description>OK, today Games Expo was not as good as the GAMA Trade Show, but it was MUCH better.  There were actually some retailers and some distributors' buyers roaming the hall.

Everyone I talked to agreed that it was still slow, but it wasn't so slow as to be laughable.  It actually felt like a professional trade show (albeit a first year show).  So day 1 and 2 were poor, but day 3 was good though not great.

Exhibitors were still wandering to each other's booths, but they were much more likely to stick close by their booths in case business needed to be transacted.

I was glad to see that the show managed to draw in some retailers from Canada and some distributors (Hobbygames and Esdevium) from the UK.

Saw some other neat games today: Worldwide Imports had a 4-player mancala set, which is a neat twist on a traditional favorite.  Found out Stonehenge is gonna cost about $50.00.  That is a little pricey given the look of the game, which is professional but not "wow!" looking.  Still, it seems to be very versatile.

3AM Games had a prototype of a crazy Universal Studios-style monster game called Silver Scream which is definitely a game to watch.

Paizo is going to be releasing an expansion to Kill Dr. Lucky called "Kill Dr. Lucky and His Little Dog Too" which will feature a doggy pawn and rules on moving him around and how he interacts with the good doctor.  Sounds like it features some fun variants.

I'll keep in touch.

Lee, over and out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, today Games Expo was not as good as the GAMA Trade Show, but it was MUCH better.  There were actually some retailers and some distributors&#8217; buyers roaming the hall.</p>
<p>Everyone I talked to agreed that it was still slow, but it wasn&#8217;t so slow as to be laughable.  It actually felt like a professional trade show (albeit a first year show).  So day 1 and 2 were poor, but day 3 was good though not great.</p>
<p>Exhibitors were still wandering to each other&#8217;s booths, but they were much more likely to stick close by their booths in case business needed to be transacted.</p>
<p>I was glad to see that the show managed to draw in some retailers from Canada and some distributors (Hobbygames and Esdevium) from the UK.</p>
<p>Saw some other neat games today: Worldwide Imports had a 4-player mancala set, which is a neat twist on a traditional favorite.  Found out Stonehenge is gonna cost about $50.00.  That is a little pricey given the look of the game, which is professional but not &#8220;wow!&#8221; looking.  Still, it seems to be very versatile.</p>
<p>3AM Games had a prototype of a crazy Universal Studios-style monster game called Silver Scream which is definitely a game to watch.</p>
<p>Paizo is going to be releasing an expansion to Kill Dr. Lucky called &#8220;Kill Dr. Lucky and His Little Dog Too&#8221; which will feature a doggy pawn and rules on moving him around and how he interacts with the good doctor.  Sounds like it features some fun variants.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll keep in touch.</p>
<p>Lee, over and out.</p>
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		<title>By: Pookie</title>
		<link>http://ogrecave.com/2007/03/17/audio-report-dundracon-goodman-games-and-troll-lord/#comment-2470</link>
		<dc:creator>Pookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ogrecave.com/tests/wordpress/?p=1954#comment-2470</guid>
		<description>Will this be available via iTunes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will this be available via iTunes?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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